I Really Wanted To Write About This Story But It's Nigh on Perfect As It Is

MS. TIPPETT: You also really emphasize the Christian themes of death and resurrection. And I'd like you to talk about really what those words mean for you.

MS. BOLZ-WEBER: Yeah. I mean, I feel like the Christian life is a life of continual death and resurrection. Also, I think some sectors of Christianity think, well, you're saved and then you're good, right? And then you just lead a really nice life and you're a good person and you're redeemed and you sort of climbed this spiritual ladder so that you're close to God. And that's just not been my experience.

My experience is of that disruption, over and over again, of going along and tripping upon something that I think I know or that I think I'm certain about, and realizing I'm wrong. Or maybe fighting to think I'm right about something over and over and over again until I experience what I call the sort of divine heart transplant. You know, it's like God reaches in and, you know, the prophets speak of this. It's not a polite experience, you know?

MS. TIPPETT: Well, tell — give me an example. Can you think of …

MS. BOLZ-WEBER: Oh, gosh. OK. So um, when my church was mostly young adults, and it was sort of, you know, hip, urban young adults. And then I preached at Red Rocks Easter Sunrise services — 10,000 people. And The Denver Post ran a front-page, full-page picture and story about me on preaching at Easter, and about my church and whatnot. And we only had about 40, 45 people every week at this point. And the next week, we doubled in size like overnight.

And we were excited because we were really struggling to grow, but what happened was it was like the wrong kind of people. I mean, it was the wrong kind of different for us, right? Like some churches might freak out if the drag queens show up, but these were like bankers wearing Dockers, right? And we were like …

(laughter)

MS. BOLZ-WEBER: It was not — it wasn't like — I freaked out. This actually isn't a joke. I freaked out. And I kind of went on this little rampage about, like wait a minute. They could show up to any mainline Protestant church in the city and see a room full of people that looked just like them, right? And like, why are they coming — it was almost like, oh, well, this just so neat! Oh, this church is neat! They're so creative! You know, and I just thought you're ruining our thing, man; you are like messing it up. And at the same time, we got evicted, this whole story. We moved …

MS. TIPPETT: Did they come with you?

MS. BOLZ-WEBER: No, no. So we moved and then that was the first service with all the new people, right? And it was like this stately, historic neighborhood instead of the like grungy hipster neighborhood we came from. And I turned to this woman who's like my deacon, and I was like, "We got to get the hell out of this neighborhood because it's attracting the wrong element."

(laughter)

MS. BOLZ-WEBER: Like this is — and I would call my friends and I'd rant about it and what am I going to do, and I called one of my friends who has a similar type of church in St. Paul, Minnesota, called House of Mercy. And I called up Russell, and I was like, "Dude, have you ever had normal people take over your church?"

And so I go on this — I tell him the whole story expecting him to be like, man, that sucks, and instead he goes, because our community holds this value of welcoming the stranger, and he goes, "Yeah, you guys are really good at welcoming the stranger when its a young transgender kid, but sometimes the stranger looks like your mom and dad." I was like, you're supposed to be my friend! Click! You know, um, and so I had scheduled this meeting to talk about the demographic change in our community so that the people who are new …

MS. TIPPETT: So just to be clear. So this to you felt like a bit of a death of the dream of what the church had been about.

MS. BOLZ-WEBER: Yes, no, completely, because I thought, well, then the people who showed up will find out what the church is about and leave. And then what happened, thank God, is I had that phone call with Russell and had this like God reaching in and pulling out my heart of stone and replacing it with a heart of flesh, like something that was actually warm and beating again.

And we had the meeting and I told that story and the people who were new told us who they were and why they were there so that the people who've been there from the beginning could hear what the church is about. And then everyone went around in a circle and Asher said, "Look, as the young transgender kid who was welcomed into this community, I just want to go on the record as saying I'm glad there's people who look like my mom and dad here, because they love me in a way my mom and dad can't."

(applause)

MS. BOLZ-WEBER: Yeah, you're clapping, but like that sucked for me, like, I was — I was sure I was right, I was going to fight the fight, I was going to do what needed to be done and then like my heart gets just cold and stony the longer I go on that path every time. So that to me, that's the Christian life. It's always death and resurrection.